Joining Freda Scott
Jay Fram joins Freda Scott Creative
March 10, 2021
YES! I'm very excited to announce that I have joined Freda Scott's roster of creative talent.
The actual Freda Scott
For those unfamiliar with her name, Freda is a Bay Area creative agent who represents a roster of 16 – uh, make that 17 – photographers, directors, and illustrators. She got her start as a stylist in San Francisco and has decades of experience in the commercial art world.
Finding national-level representation is a tricky thing to do (although Freda disagrees with me on this point – more on that below). There are a lot of photographers out there, and relatively few agents. At the very least, it's a difficult thing to do well. To find someone whose communication style and interests and experience match your own, and someone who is excited to find a home for (read: SELL) your work. So, I'm pretty stoked.
In the service of introducing her to you and getting to know her better myself, I sat down with Freda for a few minutes to learn more about her backstory and her approach. I'm posting that conversation here because I think it's relevant not only to clients and buyers, but also to other photographers seeking representation, who may be a bit frustrated by the process. This is not something you learn in art school, or communications school, or how-to-take-pictures school.
* * *
Jay:
All right. So my first question is, and you can sort of answer as much or as little as you want of these, how many photographers do you think you have represented over the years?
Freda:
Oh my God. You know, I was just looking back on invoices from the late 90s and I realized, several photographers that I've repped have retired. Not everybody stays in this for 30 years! But anyway I don't know, probably 50 to 100?
Jay:
Ok! That’s a big range.
Freda:
Yeah. Well, we can take a stab at 75.
Jay:
She estimates at least 75.
Freda:
I still know the first two that I repped very well and they're very dear. They’ve both retired.
Jay:
What are a couple of your most memorable experiences during your career – highlights, disasters, lessons you’ve learned?
Freda:
Well, I don't know that I've had any real disasters, but there's been some near misses. And what I learned is to reach out to people that have been in the business longer than me and ask for advice. (Laughs.) To admit to myself what I don't know. I think as the business has grown, positions in advertising companies have changed a lot. And I would say that they're all much more knowledgeable than they used to be. They have more street-smarts about what they want to happen in productions. And usually they're very particular. And I try to be a good follower. If my photographer says, “Well, it should be done this way,” I'll present that. But then oftentimes they'll come back and say, “Yeah, but we need to do this because of this reason.” And I try to be a follower and not push our agenda too hard. Sometimes we do have to say, ok, this casting for instance is going to take five days. It won't happen day after tomorrow. Sorry. I have to kind of break the reality news to them that sometimes things take longer than they would like.
Jay:
But that is why they're hiring you and your team as experts.
Freda:
Right. Gosh, I'll have to think tonight when I have a clear mind about what disasters… I've had one person disappear and go to Thailand for two years. That was a shock. And he came back and he just said, “I'm really sorry, but I had to do that.”
Jay:
Wow. Well, think on highlights too, because this can be such a crazy business. It's almost like there are no rules.
Freda:
I would say usually it's a love-fest by the end. Usually everyone is getting along and communicating very nicely. By the end of a shoot, there are hugs all around and everybody is very relieved and you know, best buddies.
Jay:
Right. You've been through something together. Well, that's a good segue to asking what you love most about the business.
Freda:
The people! Definitely, it's the people. I steer away from [photographers] that I sense are… maybe too rough, not kind enough. But that doesn't happen that much anymore. Used to happen more in the old days where they were more, you know, I think they had pictures in their minds of photographers, like from Blow Up* or something. It doesn't happen. People are very decent these days.
(*Classic 1966 film by Michelangelo Antonioni about a London fashion photographer.)
Jay:
Yeah, that sort of cult of personality hotshot kind of thing has faded as a model.
Freda:
Exactly. I think that's not so prevalent anymore. What else do I like about it? I like finding companies that we enjoy supporting and making their products look good and having them be successful in the marketplace - that actually feels like we're doing something good in life.
Jay:
Hmm. I agree.
Freda:
Like with the people you work with – with healthcare or with education, I love those kinds of clients, because they're good people. They're trying to further a good mission.
Jay:
Right, yeah. When a client has a good mission, it makes it easy to do good work for them.
So, all right, well let's move on. You've talked about when photographers should reach out to agents, and how. But what does a photographer stand to gain? In other words, why have a rep at all?
Freda:
That's a very, very good question. I find that what you, your group, photographers in general, want, is some protection with the client. Like I can say things to them that you might not feel comfortable saying. Because I'm a third party, I'm one step removed. And sometimes I'm asked to have hard conversations with them. Like, you're not going to get these models for less than $2,500 a day or whatever it is, this just isn't in the cards, not going to happen with this usage, whatever that conversation needs to be. Also I think that photographers get to a place in your careers that you don't want to be doing ALL of the promoting and ALL of the marketing and advertising. And marketing is a huge umbrella.
It kind of has a mystique about it, but I think that reps in general have lots of tools in the marketing toolkit that you guys want to make use of. And it's nice to have a partner in that. It's nice to have a buddy that you can bounce things off of.
The one thing that I would say that's weak, is sometimes people think, “Now I've got a rep,” and they come to me to help them out. And then go off and some of them don't really want to talk to me very much. And I'm sort of like, no, wait, I have to raise my hand here. I actually need some interaction with you about the direction that I'm going in. Is this correct? Is this where you want to go? And let's do some tag team. You reach out to people a month or two after I have, you know, it's a constant monster that needs feeding. The marketing monster.
Jay:
I mean it's everything except for doing the work, in a way.
Freda:
Ha. Yeah. And that's what I enjoy. I like planning, I like executing. I like seeing what the results are. All of that. I love seeing success of course, much more than I like seeing failure.
Jay:
Well that makes a lot of sense to me. In the same vein, why do you think it's difficult for photographers to find representation? Is it simply a matter of supply and demand?
Freda:
Hmm. I think that it's another job description that photographers have to get clear in their mind and then interview for it. And I think it's really smart to interview two or three or four or five reps just to get a feeling for what the tenor is. To find out, to pick our brains. What are we used to doing? What kinds of tasks do we do? What do we expect? How much interaction do we like with the photographer? How much interaction do we like with the clients? You know? And so whatever you're most comfortable with, then that's the fit. I just think photographers don't take the time. There's not a lack of supply, I don't think. I think there's quite a few of us reps out there.
Jay:
The list seems long whenever I look at it, but I don't know… I think there are an awful lot of photographers. Maybe you're right. Maybe they're just not doing their homework. I have interviewed a few [reps] in the last say two to three years, and it's hard to get their attention. It's definitely at least as hard to get your attention as it is to get art directors’ attention.
Freda:
Well, we get such a wide variety of skills approaching us. Like maybe in a week I get one person that's from Italy and has never done really anything other than a local fashion shoot. And then he thinks he should come to the United States or be marketed in the United States. I do answer most of those emails, and I have to say in a kind way, you're not ready for this. You need to show up over here more, and get your foot into the water over here. And then I get everything else from, like, a photographer whose rep is retiring and he wants a new rep. I mean, it's the whole gamut of types of photographers. So maybe because we're so focused, we're not paying that much attention to the incoming possibilities. And you know, frankly, I looked at your emails a couple of times before I thought seriously about who you were. It does take more than one jab to get our attention. I would just say that's probably a rule. You have to approach us three times.
Jay:
Yep. That makes sense to me.
Freda:
Some days you're paying attention to what's coming in and some days… not. (Laughs.)
Jay:
Yeah, some days you’re busy! Right. That’s a pretty positive response though, overall. I feel like if that's going out to newer photographers, people in search of a rep, it's like, it can happen for you, but it takes thoughtfulness and diligence, you’ve got to stick with it. So you've talked about how and when artists should reach out to agents – what is your advice for sustaining a productive relationship once it begins? You know, for making it successful?
Freda:
I think it really helps if we check in with each other often, and see what kind of progress I'm making and what progress you're making. I'm on the bandwagon of doing emails and newsletters quite often. And that's how I stay in front of people. So I'm always happy to share what I’ve been doing.
And also sometimes I introduce you to people. Sometimes my photographers want to be introduced and speak up and say “Hi, I'm part of this.”
Jay:
Sure. So your answer then is communicate often and stay in touch.
Freda:
Yeah. I mean, I talk to [the artists on my roster] at least once a week, either by email or talking on the phone.
Jay:
You are really responsive to communication. I mean I've noticed that already. To emails, specifically. A lot of people don’t pay such close attention.
Freda:
Well, I make it a priority and getting my photographers off the ground and being successful is… part of it is, “Ok, what are we going to do?” And making the plan and staying in touch about how the plan’s going.
Jay:
Great. Well I’m very excited for all of that. Here's a couple of questions, and I think it could be nice to speak to this in particular for the audience that I’m emailing… For clients and creatives, what do you think is the advantage of working with photographer agents? What's the difference between reaching out to an artist with an agent versus someone without an agent?
Freda:
I think that producers or buyers, marketing people, they look at us reps as kind of a very business-like operation. They feel confident and assured that we've been through enough business interactions that we're going to treat them professionally and that they can talk really honestly about money. I think sometimes people… they don't want to hurt your feelings. So if they're talking about money, sometimes there's a little tension or wariness about talking with the actual artist. They don’t want to insult you by saying, “Oh, can you do this photo for $1.95?” (Laughs.) Whereas they might say that to me.
Jay:
So that's another aspect, you're saying, where the role of the rep is almost like an account manager – you're benefiting people on both ends of the relationship by serving as an advocate and a buffer. And that's helpful to the art buyer as well. Because it protects them a little bit from photographer crankiness or emotions or whatever.
Freda:
Right.
Jay:
That makes sense. And do you think there's a credibility aspect?
Freda:
Oh, definitely. The credibility thing is a big part of why they come to us. I have had them say to me, “I wouldn't go directly to some photographers because I don't know what their background really is.” And if they ask me about your background I'm going to be honest about it. I mean I would say no, he has never done a $1 million shoot, you know? But he has done many that are with many models and crew and he can handle big complex productions. So I think that they often wonder about photographers: what's behind the photos there? And they don't know quite how to ask you.
Jay:
And they don't know if we'll be – you know, if you ask me if I can do something, I'm probably gonna say yes.
Freda:
You're always going to say yes.
Jay:
I'm always going to say yes. Yeah.
Ok, one more little detail. If I'm a new client, when there are two sets of contact info, for the rep and the photographer, who should we call?
Freda:
This is always a big question. They should call me first.
And sometimes they do, and sometimes they call you first, but they should call me. And the reason is that they need to touch base with me about whether this is an interesting project for the photographer and whether it's something that they think you would handle well. Those are just the very basics.
Jay:
Yeah. Well, I wanted to speak to that a little bit.
Freda:
Yeah. I mean I think I'm sort of the welcoming committee also.